Imbagon question (what kind of spearhead) - Guild Wars Forums

Marco_vd · Jan 28, 2011, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I was wondering what you guys use (for imbagon):

-Vampiric spearhead
-Zealous spearhead
-Sundering spearhead
-Furious spearhead

Thank you.

Spiritz · Jan 28, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31

been ages since i even looked at imbagon build but check http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:P/W_Imbagon and that has whats needed on it

Gill Halendt · Jan 28, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Furious for me

Quaker · Jan 28, 2011, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Furious is the one that most contributes to your Adrenaline flow, but it doesn't add much. Since you probably don't need more adrenaline, you could use Zealous for energy, but energy is not usually a problem for Imbagons either.
(I use a Furious spear with a +5 energy Inscription and +5 armor.)

Since doing damage is not your focus either, you don't want Vampiric - it's not worth the hassle of weapons swapping, etc.

So, bottom line - Furious - second choice Sundering, just for the extra few points of damage and/or if you want to use the same spear for other builds that could use it.

Note: the above PvX link tells you what that person recommends/uses, but it's not necessarily what you should use. I would recommend you add "Watch Yourself!" to that build. It gives you some extra armor and reboots Aggressive Refrain ("Save Yourselves!" doesn't give you extra armor.)

Bandwagon · Jan 28, 2011, 05:13 PM // 17:13

You can get away with any spear head really.

10% adrenal gain looks nice but odds are if your playing right it won't be needed anyway because you will be able to maintain SY! with near 100% uptime.

Imbagons don't deal (noticeable) damage anyway (unless your team actually features synergy from MoP/Barbs/Orders), and if you play right, you'll never have energy problems either. This leaves you with sundering and vampiric. sundering gives you a 20% chance to have the base weapon damage ignore 20% of your targets armor.

Assuming favorable conditions, that is your target has a lot more armor then normal (sundering adds more to damage with higher armor foes, which is typical for HM mobs) your spear's damage will not deal the full 14-27 damage to the target . if you ignore 20% of let us say 100 armor your damage is calculated on the basis of the target possessing 80 armor.

100 armor = 50% damage getting through, so 14-27 = 7-13.5
80 armor = ~70.7% damage getting through, so 14-27 = ~10-19

In other words, when facing foes with 100 armor, your sundering mod gives you a 20% chance to deal ~3-6 bonus damage to the target (the value is lower on lower armor foes and slightly higher on higher armored foes).

Vampiric always deals 3 damage always. If you want to increase your damage by a smidgen, go vampiric. It will offer more damage dealt then sundering ever will.

-1 degen is redundant as you will recover the health from the spear mod when attacking and inbetween fights, your heroes/henchies can heal you. Players with any sort of intelligence will heal you when your HP dips below >75% anyway in between fights.

The damage dealt did not truly improve in either case, which is why any spear head will do since 10% adrenaline is hardly noticed in the long run, energy is not a problem so no need for zealous, and vampiric/ sundering are only token damage increases at best.

Tender Care · Jan 28, 2011, 05:17 PM // 17:17

I personally use furious head and +5 energy inscription. The combo i recommend you to be able to have full adrenaline at any time is:

Focus Anger + Find their weakness + Spear of Fury = instant Save Yourself

The rest is optional......

Chthon · Jan 28, 2011, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Vampiric. It's added damage, and the periodic heal on TNtF means you don't need to switch.

A well-configured imbagon should not need furious or zealous.

chuckles79 · Jan 29, 2011, 12:13 AM // 00:13

I use Prayer of the Forgotten as my default, furious, +30, and +5e make it good when you need to reapply refrain, or my fav opening combo is Anthem of Flame b4 battle, and open up with Focused Anger and Spear of Fury. Decent damage with high faction rank, and applies burning, and instant SY while you are at it.

For prolonged fights or a "target-rich environment" I recommend Turep's Spear or any Zealous mod for casters. The Energy drain is just a drop in the bucket, but if you can prevent one heal or one interrupt you've just done your team a big favor.
Tradition would recommend an elemental weapon for warriors and paras, but I would just go with the vampiric.
Use vampiric if you have to switch targets often, fighting a lot of melee, ranged, and elementals. Also preferred for large targets.

Don't doubt the damage you can do in the right situations. In Fow last weekend I brought along an orders ele, and between OoP and GtfE, I could easily do 60-70 dmg with Spear of Fury. Not bad dmg output for a support profession.

MithranArkanere · Jan 29, 2011, 02:52 AM // 02:52

With my Paragon I use a Prayer of the Forgotten and a Zehtuka's Horn when I go Imbagon.
That's +10% chance to double adrenaline, Received physical damage -5 (Chance: 20%) , +11Energy, and +60 Health.

It works fine for me, plus it look great to go around with a warnhorn a la GW2.

Marco_vd · Jan 29, 2011, 11:17 AM // 11:17

I don't need adrenaline, i'm fine with that, so no furious.

I don't realy care about damage (as you are a support class) so i don't like a sundering spearhead (mostly i run racway if i H/H)
The vampiric is just a +3 damage.

If i play imbagon i'm fine with energy (35 energy, and i still have my staff if i run out of energy, wich give me 50 energy)

So i don't know what to select.

JONO51 · Jan 29, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Vamp, icy and a furious/-20% blind set for me.

Quaker · Jan 29, 2011, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco_vd

So i don't know what to select.

So don't - just leave whatever is (or is not) on it, on it.

You could consider the idea of using some sort of condition causing setup. Say, a barbed spearhead with Barbed Spear or poisonous spearhead with Poison Tip Signet (Ranger) or whatever.

LifeInfusion · Jan 29, 2011, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Never sundering.

http://www.oildrip.com/calc/index.php

For 12 attributes:

35.6 Average Damage with +3 Vampiric Prefix
22.3 Minimum Damage
40.3 Maximum Damage
55.7 Critical Hit Damage
31.3 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
35.6 Average Damage (including critical hits)

Damage (20% Sundering)
20.2 Minimum Damage
39 Maximum Damage
55.1 Critical Hit Damage
29.6 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
34.1 Average Damage (including critical hits)

For 14:
38.6
Average Damage with +3 Vampiric Prefix
23.7 Minimum Damage
42.9 Maximum Damage
59.5 Critical Hit Damage
33.3 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
38.6 Average Damage (including critical hits)

Damage (20% Sundering)
21.7 Minimum Damage
41.8 Maximum Damage
59.1 Critical Hit Damage
31.7 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
37.3 Average Damage (including critical hits)

MithranArkanere · Jan 29, 2011, 08:19 PM // 20:19

More energy comes in handy under spirit shackles. And some extra adrenaline gain helps when enemies have 'soothing' effects.

Marco_vd · Jan 29, 2011, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

So don't - just leave whatever is (or is not) on it, on it.

At the moment i have a zealous 1.
I guess that i leave it on the spear.

Icecream · Jan 29, 2011, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Vamp ofc, more dmg, and the zealous isn't needed, neither is the furious.

Kurosaki129 · Jan 30, 2011, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I use Furious.

Keep in mind what is the key role you do as an Imbagons - To provide support for the party. You don't do dmg, leave it to your party, you're playing mid-line support for your party.

Chthon · Jan 30, 2011, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco_vd

I don't realy care about damage (as you are a support class)

This viewpoint is your problem.

Killing monsters is integral to your win condition in almost every mission or quest (either because killing them is the goal or because they are hostile and in the way). Every resource your party has that is not needed for survival (or quest/mission-specific gimmicks) should be directed towards killing monsters.

The direct corollary is that every weapon in your party that can be vampiric should be vampiric unless there is a specific reason for it not to be.

(Sundering scythes used by crit-sins perhaps excepted.)

Marco_vd · Jan 30, 2011, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosaki129

I use Furious.

Keep in mind what is the key role you do as an Imbagons - To provide support for the party. You don't do dmg, leave it to your party, you're playing mid-line support for your party.

Furious is usefull, i know, but i got enough adrenaline to support my party, so i don't use a furious.

Quaker · Jan 30, 2011, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Never sundering.

Average Damage with +3 Vampiric Prefix
38.6 Average Damage (including critical hits)

Damage (20% Sundering)
37.3 Average Damage (including critical hits)

Not only are the numbers arrived at by simple calculation not the same as "real-GW-world" numbers, but you'd have to ask - "would a whole 1.6 extra damage be worth worrying about anyway?" (even if it was true.)

Jan 28, 2011, 03:55 PM // 15:55	#1
Marco_vd Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Belgium \| Antwerp Guild: Howling Voids [hv] Profession: W/	Imbagon question (what kind of spearhead) I was wondering what you guys use (for imbagon): -Vampiric spearhead -Zealous spearhead -Sundering spearhead -Furious spearhead Thank you. Last edited by Marco_vd; Jan 29, 2011 at 02:35 PM // 14:35..

Jan 28, 2011, 04:46 PM // 16:46	#4
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Furious is the one that most contributes to your Adrenaline flow, but it doesn't add much. Since you probably don't need more adrenaline, you could use Zealous for energy, but energy is not usually a problem for Imbagons either. (I use a Furious spear with a +5 energy Inscription and +5 armor.) Since doing damage is not your focus either, you don't want Vampiric - it's not worth the hassle of weapons swapping, etc. So, bottom line - Furious - second choice Sundering, just for the extra few points of damage and/or if you want to use the same spear for other builds that could use it. Note: the above PvX link tells you what that person recommends/uses, but it's not necessarily what you should use. I would recommend you add "Watch Yourself!" to that build. It gives you some extra armor and reboots Aggressive Refrain ("Save Yourselves!" doesn't give you extra armor.) Last edited by Quaker; Jan 29, 2011 at 03:51 PM // 15:51..

Jan 30, 2011, 02:46 AM // 02:46	#17
Kurosaki129 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2009 Location: Guild Wars, Earth? Profession: Mo/E	I use Furious. Keep in mind what is the key role you do as an Imbagons - To provide support for the party. You don't do dmg, leave it to your party, you're playing mid-line support for your party. Last edited by Kurosaki129; Jan 30, 2011 at 02:56 AM // 02:56..

Jan 28, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31	#2
Spiritz Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2007 Guild: DMFC	been ages since i even looked at imbagon build but check http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:P/W_Imbagon and that has whats needed on it

Jan 28, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31	#3
Gill Halendt Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008	Furious for me

Jan 28, 2011, 05:13 PM // 17:13	#5
Bandwagon Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2010 Profession: D/	You can get away with any spear head really. 10% adrenal gain looks nice but odds are if your playing right it won't be needed anyway because you will be able to maintain SY! with near 100% uptime. Imbagons don't deal (noticeable) damage anyway (unless your team actually features synergy from MoP/Barbs/Orders), and if you play right, you'll never have energy problems either. This leaves you with sundering and vampiric. sundering gives you a 20% chance to have the base weapon damage ignore 20% of your targets armor. Assuming favorable conditions, that is your target has a lot more armor then normal (sundering adds more to damage with higher armor foes, which is typical for HM mobs) your spear's damage will not deal the full 14-27 damage to the target . if you ignore 20% of let us say 100 armor your damage is calculated on the basis of the target possessing 80 armor. 100 armor = 50% damage getting through, so 14-27 = 7-13.5 80 armor = ~70.7% damage getting through, so 14-27 = ~10-19 In other words, when facing foes with 100 armor, your sundering mod gives you a 20% chance to deal ~3-6 bonus damage to the target (the value is lower on lower armor foes and slightly higher on higher armored foes). Vampiric always deals 3 damage always. If you want to increase your damage by a smidgen, go vampiric. It will offer more damage dealt then sundering ever will. -1 degen is redundant as you will recover the health from the spear mod when attacking and inbetween fights, your heroes/henchies can heal you. Players with any sort of intelligence will heal you when your HP dips below >75% anyway in between fights. The damage dealt did not truly improve in either case, which is why any spear head will do since 10% adrenaline is hardly noticed in the long run, energy is not a problem so no need for zealous, and vampiric/ sundering are only token damage increases at best.

Jan 28, 2011, 05:17 PM // 17:17	#6
Tender Care Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2008 Location: Blackwater Park Guild: MpF Profession: P/	I personally use furious head and +5 energy inscription. The combo i recommend you to be able to have full adrenaline at any time is: Focus Anger + Find their weakness + Spear of Fury = instant Save Yourself The rest is optional......

Jan 28, 2011, 09:26 PM // 21:26	#7
Chthon Grotto Attendant Join Date: Apr 2007	Vampiric. It's added damage, and the periodic heal on TNtF means you don't need to switch. A well-configured imbagon should not need furious or zealous.

Jan 29, 2011, 12:13 AM // 00:13	#8
chuckles79 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2009 Guild: FILA Profession: P/	I use Prayer of the Forgotten as my default, furious, +30, and +5e make it good when you need to reapply refrain, or my fav opening combo is Anthem of Flame b4 battle, and open up with Focused Anger and Spear of Fury. Decent damage with high faction rank, and applies burning, and instant SY while you are at it. For prolonged fights or a "target-rich environment" I recommend Turep's Spear or any Zealous mod for casters. The Energy drain is just a drop in the bucket, but if you can prevent one heal or one interrupt you've just done your team a big favor. Tradition would recommend an elemental weapon for warriors and paras, but I would just go with the vampiric. Use vampiric if you have to switch targets often, fighting a lot of melee, ranged, and elementals. Also preferred for large targets. Don't doubt the damage you can do in the right situations. In Fow last weekend I brought along an orders ele, and between OoP and GtfE, I could easily do 60-70 dmg with Spear of Fury. Not bad dmg output for a support profession.

Jan 29, 2011, 02:52 AM // 02:52	#9
MithranArkanere Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo Guild: Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO] Profession: E/	With my Paragon I use a Prayer of the Forgotten and a Zehtuka's Horn when I go Imbagon. That's +10% chance to double adrenaline, Received physical damage -5 (Chance: 20%) , +11Energy, and +60 Health. It works fine for me, plus it look great to go around with a warnhorn a la GW2.

Jan 29, 2011, 11:17 AM // 11:17	#10
Marco_vd Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Belgium \| Antwerp Guild: Howling Voids [hv] Profession: W/	I don't need adrenaline, i'm fine with that, so no furious. I don't realy care about damage (as you are a support class) so i don't like a sundering spearhead (mostly i run racway if i H/H) The vampiric is just a +3 damage. If i play imbagon i'm fine with energy (35 energy, and i still have my staff if i run out of energy, wich give me 50 energy) So i don't know what to select.

Jan 29, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10	#11
JONO51 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2006 Profession: P/	Vamp, icy and a furious/-20% blind set for me.

Jan 29, 2011, 04:12 PM // 16:12	#13
LifeInfusion Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: in the midline Profession: E/Mo	Never sundering. http://www.oildrip.com/calc/index.php For 12 attributes: 35.6 Average Damage with +3 Vampiric Prefix 22.3 Minimum Damage 40.3 Maximum Damage 55.7 Critical Hit Damage 31.3 Average Damage (excluding critical hits) 35.6 Average Damage (including critical hits) Damage (20% Sundering) 20.2 Minimum Damage 39 Maximum Damage 55.1 Critical Hit Damage 29.6 Average Damage (excluding critical hits) 34.1 Average Damage (including critical hits) For 14: 38.6 Average Damage with +3 Vampiric Prefix 23.7 Minimum Damage 42.9 Maximum Damage 59.5 Critical Hit Damage 33.3 Average Damage (excluding critical hits) 38.6 Average Damage (including critical hits) Damage (20% Sundering) 21.7 Minimum Damage 41.8 Maximum Damage 59.1 Critical Hit Damage 31.7 Average Damage (excluding critical hits) 37.3 Average Damage (including critical hits)

Jan 29, 2011, 08:19 PM // 20:19	#14
MithranArkanere Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo Guild: Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO] Profession: E/	More energy comes in handy under spirit shackles. And some extra adrenaline gain helps when enemies have 'soothing' effects.

Jan 29, 2011, 10:05 PM // 22:05	#16
Icecream Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Ice Tooth Cave Guild: Zealots Of Shiverpeak Profession: Mo/	Vamp ofc, more dmg, and the zealous isn't needed, neither is the furious.